Does Minnesota need a Minneapolis-Duluth train?
Care to weekend in Duluth? Commute from Hinckley to Minneapolis? Take a train to the casino and back?
MPR says a group of public officials from Minneapolis to Duluth has formed an alliance to start passenger rail service between the Twin Cities and the Twin Ports.
They have a study that indicates a high speed passenger train “could” make millions of dollars and pay for itself.
Let’s look at this from a real-world example:
Wikipedia says the Hiawatha Light Rail train system in Minneapolis cost $715 million with $400k recently spent to upgrade signals. It’s not exactly paying for itself yet. And while the folks at Light Rail Now say ridership is at an all-time high and “LRT has clearly helped increase Twin Cities total transit ridership significantly” — I guess I’m not sold that our tax dollars should be subsidizing huge mass transit systems that only benefit a small percentage of commuters or pleasure riders.
I know that a vast minority of commuters actually live within walking distance to the LRT, commuting to a LRT station takes longer than driving into downtown, and my tax dollars are being used to subsidize something I can’t ever imagine myself using (would require me driving to the MOA, parking and riding into downtown, which is idiotic).
I understand this high-speed train to Duluth has its differences (especially getting in bed with the Ojibwe to feed dollars into their casino), but I suppose I’m not sold that $400 million in state dollars — just as our legislators are again going to raise our taxes without cutting spending in the face of a perceived recession — is something I would ever vote for.
Note: I’m assuming us Minnesotans would get a vote (cough, Twins Stadium, cough).
But I’m open to your opinion.
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I would love a train to Duluth! I would also love a train to Green Bay please.
I’m not categorically opposed to more mass/public transit. Single lines can’t exist in a vacuum, though. There needs to be a system so that it does serve all/most, instead of a select few for whom it’s convenient.
I try to keep in mind that our mindset here is just different and people don’t think twice about taking a suitcase on a train, or taking a cab or a shuttle to the nearest connection point to get their destination in cities with more comprehensive transit offerings.
That said, we sure as hell better get to vote on it. I’d be curious to see how the proposed cost gets spread around amongst taxpayers in different counties.
Personally, a high-speed rail option to Duluth would certainly make me more inclined to go up there to visit (I’ll be bypassing the casino, thank you very much).
"and my tax dollars are being used to subsidize something I can’t ever imagine myself using" -> dude, that’s how government works. pay the stuff no individual person would pay for, spreading cost/risk to everyone. i hate that my dollars are still going to iraq, but i’d argue about the war, not about taxing.
"Just as our legislators are again going to raise our taxes without cutting spending in the face of a perceived recession" –> Is it ever a good time to raise taxes? Most would say no. But, Pawlenty hasn’t raised taxes in his two terms. Stuff costs money, and cutting taxes doesn’t raise revenue. Sometimes an investment in the community spurs economic development.
I like any sort of mass transit. It builds up long-term infrastructure and gets development going. If you want to talk economics, Greg, it creates a more free labor market by allowing people to move where they will be more useful. If you want to talk social justice, it allows people to not be trapped by the crap jobs near their house. Or tourism, or development/density issues, etc etc…. this is a good idea.
Thanks for the lecture, nameless lurker who won’t stand behind his words! Good points, though.
No single line will serve everyone, but a bunch of lines will serve a bunch of people, and I hope to see a system like that here sometime in my lifetime. I live next to the Hiawatha line and use it occasionally, but I hope the next one is no where close to me. Let another area see how beneficial it can be.
And I’m for not voting for it. I already voted once for some dude to represent me, and I don’t want to vote again. I’ll let my voice be heard by calling said dude.
this is a no brainer. name a large and/or thriving metro area that doesn’t have both a decent bus and train system…? the problem (as stated before) is that you can’t do this adding a single line at a time.
If this refers to the study that was in the news about a month or so ago, it should be noted that the study was done by a - gasp - rail developer.
I’ll come back tonight with details of the transit portion of the transportation bill if it passes this afternoon.
Say, Greg, maybe I don’t use those roads you drive to work on. Why should my tax dollars pay for them? I just don’t see the benefit! After all, you don’t pay tolls to drive on those roads and pay for them, do you? I just don’t see the point of pouring my tax dollars into subsidizing your travel to work or for pleasure like that!
And maybe so many people drive because that’s the only thing the government spends money on, so it’s the only reasonable option to a normal person. But that’s not the natural state of things, that’s because the government actively pushed automobile commuting as the favored option for the last fifty plus years.
Get off your high horse, Greg.
Its a good idea. I may take it, if it ever happens.
The House just overrided the governor’s veto of the transportation bill. I’ll be waiting, Kevin…
The most obvious part of the bill, er now it’s law, for transit is the 1/4-cent 7-county sales tax increase. It’s entirely dedicated to transit and will bring in $1.1+ billion over 10 years. The money will be dolled out by a joint-powers group made up of local elected officials from each of the seven counties. They’ll pick where it goes and in what amounts, so long as it’s consistent with the Met Council’s plans.
But there’s also a lot beyond the money. The law directs the Met Council to work with the federal government to build a light rail/commuter rail system consisting of an extended Northstar line, the southwest line, the "red rock" line to Hastings and the "rush line" north up I-35.
It also makes major policy changes to how the lines would be paid for. Local governments are limited to paying no more than 10 percent of the capital costs and would pay none of the yearly operating costs. Hennepin County’s share of the Hiawatha operating costs are also transfered to the state. It’s assumed the metro sales tax proceeds will pay for the operating costs, but that’s not specifically spelled out in the law.
That’s about it as far as the new law goes. But this is hardly the end of transit for this session. Already today the wheels are turning to get transit bonding into the bonding bill and by all indications it will get most - if not all - of what the transit lobby asks for.
In short, this is and will continue to be a very good year for transit advocates.
Thank you, Kevin!
Ha! I just moved to Ramesy county, so I no longer have to pay for the f’ing Twins stadium.