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	<title>Comments on: MNspeak, in a nutshell.</title>
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		<title>By: Bixby</title>
		<link>http://minneapolis.metblogs.com/2007/05/16/mnspeak-in-a-nutshell/comment-page-2/#comment-3428</link>
		<dc:creator>Bixby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jun 2007 13:48:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://minneapolis.metblogs.com/2007/05/16/mnspeak-in-a-nutshell/#comment-3428</guid>
		<description>Tree House Guy,
Interesting observations, all of them very valid. What specific actions do you think can be taken to remedy the problem(s)? How exactly would one go about encouraging less superficial discourse and drawing in more women and newcomers?

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tree House Guy,<br />
Interesting observations, all of them very valid. What specific actions do you think can be taken to remedy the problem(s)? How exactly would one go about encouraging less superficial discourse and drawing in more women and newcomers?</p>
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		<title>By: Tree House Guy</title>
		<link>http://minneapolis.metblogs.com/2007/05/16/mnspeak-in-a-nutshell/comment-page-2/#comment-3427</link>
		<dc:creator>Tree House Guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Jun 2007 15:52:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://minneapolis.metblogs.com/2007/05/16/mnspeak-in-a-nutshell/#comment-3427</guid>
		<description>I have been observing MNSpeak for a while now, while changing my habits from reading mainly print news sources to getting my news and info mostly online. I like the idea behind MNSpeak, but as many have said here, the actual execution these days leaves much to be desired. I have been interested enough in the site&#039;s history and development to go back and read a lot of the archived material. Here are the main reactions I have.

The choice to keep the site as only lightly moderated, as Tom Bartel once described it, is worthy of questioning. As Max has said, in a comment he made long before becoming the new editor, discussions at unmoderated sites quickly turn very unpleasant and mostly useless. (Example: Craig&#039;sList Rants-&#039;n-Raves.)

Matt&#039;s still quite a young guy, so it didn&#039;t surprise me that as editor he&#039;d shy away from moderating discussions, because he&#039;d likely find himslef overmatched. But Max ought to be able to do fine moderating; it&#039;s clear he&#039;s already been toning down his former tendency to be, at times, critical and argumentative, now that he&#039;s in the middle, as editor and facilitator. And he writes well, and has a good sense of humor.

Max could also help things by going out of his way to welcome worthy newcomers, and encourage the regulars to do the same. And to encourage the regulars to go easy on newcomers.

But the clique-ish in-crowd clubbiness among the regulars, with their fondness for inside jokes, creates a huge barrier in the way of newcomers being willing to become participants.

I had to read a lot of archived threads to be able to begin to catch on about who among the regulars is who, and where they&#039;re each coming from. It&#039;s understandable that they keep their personal-info disclosures in their profiles to a minimum. But then, as a reader, you kind of need to create your own cheat-sheet reference guide (&quot;can&#039;t tell the players without a program&quot;), about who&#039;s who, based on stuff they&#039;ve said in archived threads. And then you can wind up feeling like you&#039;re cyber-stalking them. And then once you&#039;ve learned to recognize the players, for your trouble you&#039;re rewarded with the disappointment of watching them interact in just very predictable ways, in joking around and in giving each other a hard time, and that&#039;s just not very interesting. Kind of like on a lame reality show on TV, where it&#039;s expected that the participants always need to be stirring things up with one another.

And it would be good for the very frequent regular commenters to be encouraged to comment less frequently. . . in the interest of quality over quantity. The regulars tend to monitor the site throughout their workday hours, watching for each next chance to chime in, and for whenever any other regulars refer to them. That puts any newcomer who can&#039;t be doing that (because of the requirements of their jobs) at a conversational disadvantage. The MNSpeak logo says &quot;All Day, All Night&quot;. But the reality is much more &quot;All Day, while bored at work; not much at night.&quot;

MNSpeak attracts very few women who aren&#039;t still quite young and into lots of nightlife. That&#039;s a big gap, a big missed chunk of the potential audience and contributors. I&#039;m confident that part of the reason is the flirting and bawdiness by some of the young-women regulars, who seem to have excessive needs to have any guys, whether young or not, paying attention to them. That&#039;s usually guaranteed to put off women who are a little older and aren&#039;t flirty and bawdy. Here again, the moderator could excercise some useful influence.

Another disappointing pattern is when on occasion someone submits a genuninely informative or insightful comment, but the regulars just ignore it, as they revert to their in-jokes and sniping. Maybe I&#039;m not typical, but the reason I&#039;m intrigued by MNSpeak is its potential for providing lots of good user-contributed info, on subjects the contributors have some genuine expertise in. Not in-jokes and sniping.

I have also tried out the Strib&#039;s Buzz.Mn site, which is more moderated, and obviously aimed at more of a family-newspaper audience. So far, I haven&#039;t been impressed there. The thread topics have tended to be duds. And so many of those commenting, though more civil and much less clique-ish than MNSpeak&#039;s typical participants, tend to want to just ask rather uninformed questions, or speculate wildly rather than contribute reliable info. (Like, why not first do a simple little bit of Googling on the topic, or see if Wikipedia has something good on it?)

Tom Bartel has complained at various times that the MNSpeak regulars aren&#039;t shouldering enough responsibility for the site&#039;s quality and success. In that MNSpeak is a commercial venture of the Bartel family (which is fine with me), seems to me that that should be mostly up to them, as the proprietors.

I will be happy to see MNSpeak survive and thrive. Or else fall by the wayside and get supplanted by someone else&#039;s better version. I&#039;ll direct my online reading attention to whichever one or ones are most consistently displaying good info on subjects I&#039;m interested in.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have been observing MNSpeak for a while now, while changing my habits from reading mainly print news sources to getting my news and info mostly online. I like the idea behind MNSpeak, but as many have said here, the actual execution these days leaves much to be desired. I have been interested enough in the site&#8217;s history and development to go back and read a lot of the archived material. Here are the main reactions I have.</p>
<p>The choice to keep the site as only lightly moderated, as Tom Bartel once described it, is worthy of questioning. As Max has said, in a comment he made long before becoming the new editor, discussions at unmoderated sites quickly turn very unpleasant and mostly useless. (Example: Craig&#8217;sList Rants-&#8217;n-Raves.)</p>
<p>Matt&#8217;s still quite a young guy, so it didn&#8217;t surprise me that as editor he&#8217;d shy away from moderating discussions, because he&#8217;d likely find himslef overmatched. But Max ought to be able to do fine moderating; it&#8217;s clear he&#8217;s already been toning down his former tendency to be, at times, critical and argumentative, now that he&#8217;s in the middle, as editor and facilitator. And he writes well, and has a good sense of humor.</p>
<p>Max could also help things by going out of his way to welcome worthy newcomers, and encourage the regulars to do the same. And to encourage the regulars to go easy on newcomers.</p>
<p>But the clique-ish in-crowd clubbiness among the regulars, with their fondness for inside jokes, creates a huge barrier in the way of newcomers being willing to become participants.</p>
<p>I had to read a lot of archived threads to be able to begin to catch on about who among the regulars is who, and where they&#8217;re each coming from. It&#8217;s understandable that they keep their personal-info disclosures in their profiles to a minimum. But then, as a reader, you kind of need to create your own cheat-sheet reference guide (&#8221;can&#8217;t tell the players without a program&#8221;), about who&#8217;s who, based on stuff they&#8217;ve said in archived threads. And then you can wind up feeling like you&#8217;re cyber-stalking them. And then once you&#8217;ve learned to recognize the players, for your trouble you&#8217;re rewarded with the disappointment of watching them interact in just very predictable ways, in joking around and in giving each other a hard time, and that&#8217;s just not very interesting. Kind of like on a lame reality show on TV, where it&#8217;s expected that the participants always need to be stirring things up with one another.</p>
<p>And it would be good for the very frequent regular commenters to be encouraged to comment less frequently. . . in the interest of quality over quantity. The regulars tend to monitor the site throughout their workday hours, watching for each next chance to chime in, and for whenever any other regulars refer to them. That puts any newcomer who can&#8217;t be doing that (because of the requirements of their jobs) at a conversational disadvantage. The MNSpeak logo says &#8220;All Day, All Night&#8221;. But the reality is much more &#8220;All Day, while bored at work; not much at night.&#8221;</p>
<p>MNSpeak attracts very few women who aren&#8217;t still quite young and into lots of nightlife. That&#8217;s a big gap, a big missed chunk of the potential audience and contributors. I&#8217;m confident that part of the reason is the flirting and bawdiness by some of the young-women regulars, who seem to have excessive needs to have any guys, whether young or not, paying attention to them. That&#8217;s usually guaranteed to put off women who are a little older and aren&#8217;t flirty and bawdy. Here again, the moderator could excercise some useful influence.</p>
<p>Another disappointing pattern is when on occasion someone submits a genuninely informative or insightful comment, but the regulars just ignore it, as they revert to their in-jokes and sniping. Maybe I&#8217;m not typical, but the reason I&#8217;m intrigued by MNSpeak is its potential for providing lots of good user-contributed info, on subjects the contributors have some genuine expertise in. Not in-jokes and sniping.</p>
<p>I have also tried out the Strib&#8217;s Buzz.Mn site, which is more moderated, and obviously aimed at more of a family-newspaper audience. So far, I haven&#8217;t been impressed there. The thread topics have tended to be duds. And so many of those commenting, though more civil and much less clique-ish than MNSpeak&#8217;s typical participants, tend to want to just ask rather uninformed questions, or speculate wildly rather than contribute reliable info. (Like, why not first do a simple little bit of Googling on the topic, or see if Wikipedia has something good on it?)</p>
<p>Tom Bartel has complained at various times that the MNSpeak regulars aren&#8217;t shouldering enough responsibility for the site&#8217;s quality and success. In that MNSpeak is a commercial venture of the Bartel family (which is fine with me), seems to me that that should be mostly up to them, as the proprietors.</p>
<p>I will be happy to see MNSpeak survive and thrive. Or else fall by the wayside and get supplanted by someone else&#8217;s better version. I&#8217;ll direct my online reading attention to whichever one or ones are most consistently displaying good info on subjects I&#8217;m interested in.</p>
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		<title>By: Aaron</title>
		<link>http://minneapolis.metblogs.com/2007/05/16/mnspeak-in-a-nutshell/comment-page-2/#comment-3426</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 May 2007 14:00:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://minneapolis.metblogs.com/2007/05/16/mnspeak-in-a-nutshell/#comment-3426</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Here it is in a nutshell. You all bitch, but where are your posts? Matt just must not be interested in the same things Rex is, but it seems many of you are, but just aren&#039;t willing to do the work that Rex did to bring them to people&#039;s attention. Here&#039;s a tip, just go to fimoculous, see what Rex thinks, then post about it on mnspeak, and it will be right back to where it was before Rex left.&lt;/i&gt;

Tom-

It&#039;s not our job to make us interested in posting content on MNspeak. That&#039;s MNspeak&#039;s job.

-Aaron</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Here it is in a nutshell. You all bitch, but where are your posts? Matt just must not be interested in the same things Rex is, but it seems many of you are, but just aren&#8217;t willing to do the work that Rex did to bring them to people&#8217;s attention. Here&#8217;s a tip, just go to fimoculous, see what Rex thinks, then post about it on mnspeak, and it will be right back to where it was before Rex left.</i></p>
<p>Tom-</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not our job to make us interested in posting content on MNspeak. That&#8217;s MNspeak&#8217;s job.</p>
<p>-Aaron</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://minneapolis.metblogs.com/2007/05/16/mnspeak-in-a-nutshell/comment-page-2/#comment-3425</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 May 2007 04:09:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://minneapolis.metblogs.com/2007/05/16/mnspeak-in-a-nutshell/#comment-3425</guid>
		<description>Now that Tombo has weighed in, I have to.  Ya&#039;ll are right about the aggregator.  I&#039;ll do better.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Now that Tombo has weighed in, I have to.  Ya&#8217;ll are right about the aggregator.  I&#8217;ll do better.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: zenrhino</title>
		<link>http://minneapolis.metblogs.com/2007/05/16/mnspeak-in-a-nutshell/comment-page-2/#comment-3424</link>
		<dc:creator>zenrhino</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 May 2007 01:44:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://minneapolis.metblogs.com/2007/05/16/mnspeak-in-a-nutshell/#comment-3424</guid>
		<description>The aggregator was totally badass.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The aggregator was totally badass.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Bartel</title>
		<link>http://minneapolis.metblogs.com/2007/05/16/mnspeak-in-a-nutshell/comment-page-2/#comment-3423</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Bartel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2007 21:14:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://minneapolis.metblogs.com/2007/05/16/mnspeak-in-a-nutshell/#comment-3423</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;Granted, since posts can be created by anyone, we could fill that need for this ourselves, but it was a lot easier when Rex did it for us.&lt;/em&gt; Here it is in a nutshell. You all bitch, but where are your posts? Matt just must not be interested in the same things Rex is, but it seems many of you are, but just aren&#039;t willing to do the work that Rex did to bring them to people&#039;s attention. Here&#039;s a tip, just go to fimoculous, see what Rex thinks, then post about it on mnspeak, and it will be right back to where it was before Rex left.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>Granted, since posts can be created by anyone, we could fill that need for this ourselves, but it was a lot easier when Rex did it for us.</em> Here it is in a nutshell. You all bitch, but where are your posts? Matt just must not be interested in the same things Rex is, but it seems many of you are, but just aren&#8217;t willing to do the work that Rex did to bring them to people&#8217;s attention. Here&#8217;s a tip, just go to fimoculous, see what Rex thinks, then post about it on mnspeak, and it will be right back to where it was before Rex left.</p>
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		<title>By: andrew</title>
		<link>http://minneapolis.metblogs.com/2007/05/16/mnspeak-in-a-nutshell/comment-page-2/#comment-3422</link>
		<dc:creator>andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 May 2007 19:21:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://minneapolis.metblogs.com/2007/05/16/mnspeak-in-a-nutshell/#comment-3422</guid>
		<description>I think Metrobloggging has just become the new MNSpeak. There&#039;s something to be said for civility.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Metrobloggging has just become the new MNSpeak. There&#8217;s something to be said for civility.</p>
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		<title>By: Aaron</title>
		<link>http://minneapolis.metblogs.com/2007/05/16/mnspeak-in-a-nutshell/comment-page-2/#comment-3421</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 May 2007 17:28:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://minneapolis.metblogs.com/2007/05/16/mnspeak-in-a-nutshell/#comment-3421</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not objective enough to write about it. Nor experienced. At least that&#039;s what I&#039;m going to say.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not objective enough to write about it. Nor experienced. At least that&#8217;s what I&#8217;m going to say.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason</title>
		<link>http://minneapolis.metblogs.com/2007/05/16/mnspeak-in-a-nutshell/comment-page-2/#comment-3420</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 May 2007 15:58:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://minneapolis.metblogs.com/2007/05/16/mnspeak-in-a-nutshell/#comment-3420</guid>
		<description>Congrats on Wired, Rex.  That&#039;s excellent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Congrats on Wired, Rex.  That&#8217;s excellent.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Erica M</title>
		<link>http://minneapolis.metblogs.com/2007/05/16/mnspeak-in-a-nutshell/comment-page-2/#comment-3419</link>
		<dc:creator>Erica M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 May 2007 15:01:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://minneapolis.metblogs.com/2007/05/16/mnspeak-in-a-nutshell/#comment-3419</guid>
		<description>So Rex needs a ghost writer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So Rex needs a ghost writer.</p>
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